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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2012 14:18:01 GMT -5
Thanks Rob, I really appreciate the specific, detailed feedback ( pos or neg). I promise you I have ZERO bias when I do the Ontario rankings. However, i do have a shortcoming. I ve never really looked too hard into results of matches regarding 2 lower ranked guys ( in the past). But since I took on these rankings, I have. I ve already started looking at all vid footage accessible to me. I ll look into ur matches with Tony, as well as others. Look for either a change in next updates or at the very least a detailed explanation why u are ranked where u are.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2012 14:22:58 GMT -5
I ll be very happy to discuss ANYONE's ranking and take constructive criticism based on it.
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Post by Eric Roussin on Feb 21, 2012 14:46:28 GMT -5
It bothers me when there is an assumption of bias when it comes to the way rankings are developed. Rather than jumping to conclusions like "They heavily favor newbies, popular pullers, pullers from the east and pullers with in the hook profiles" it would be better to assume that the person maintaining the rankings may be working with incomplete information. I can't recall exactly, but I think Tony moved ahead of you because he finished higher than you in the standings in the last two events you both pulled (the 2011 Southerns and 2011 Northerns). I was not there, so I don't know if he beat you, but it can be a reasonable assumption that if he finished higher than you then he either beat you, or beat someone who beat you. This may not be the case (he may have gotten byes/better luck in the brackets), but it's a limitation to the way rankings are updated in the absence of additional information. Chris is not at every tournament and does not see every match. If you notice something that you think isn't right, contact Chris and explain why you feel this way. I recently noticed an adjustment he made that I felt was wrong and I explained to him why I felt this way. As I suspected, he was working with incomplete information. He then made the adjustment in his next update.
Remember -- someone can be ranked higher than you even if he never beat you, IF he beat someone who was already ranked higher than you.
What would Chris or I have to gain from publishing biased rankings? It would just damage our credibility.
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Post by Hugh Brodie on Feb 21, 2012 16:34:20 GMT -5
In a perfect world, the "ranker" would have access to complete draw sheets from every event. In a large event, with no access to complete videos or draw sheets, it's impossible to always know who beat whom.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2012 17:16:42 GMT -5
In a perfect world, the "ranker" would have access to complete draw sheets from every event. In a large event, with no access to complete videos or draw sheets, it's impossible to always know who beat whom. There's ways around that. Last event, I ended up contacting 2 pullers to clarify if they pulled eachother, in respect to one placing higher in class than other. It was established that they did, and the winner leap frogged the loser in rankings. |
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Post by Jerry Milne on Feb 21, 2012 21:22:07 GMT -5
Rob, I'd have to agree with both Chris and Eric when they say they are not biased. Their integrity should not be called into this. Also I have no influence over the rankings either. Chris sets them up and I just post them.
As far as favoring inthehook profiled pullers, I just looked.
0-154 = 3 profiled pullers out of 20 ranked
155-176 = 5 profiled pullers out of 20 ranked
177-198 = 8 profiled pullers out of 20 ranked
199-242 = 10 profiles pullers out of 20 ranked
243 + = 8 profiled pullers out of 20 ranked
These are probably just more active pullers that enjoyed and took the time to fill out a profile. I doubt very highly that Eric did or Chris does look or care who has a profile or not which is easy to see in the lighter categories.
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Post by Rob Hancock on Feb 22, 2012 8:50:10 GMT -5
Jamison Lalande is another puller that has NEVER beaten me (either hand), but is ranked higher than me (on both hands).
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Post by Rob Hancock on Feb 23, 2012 9:29:17 GMT -5
If the latest rankings update is final I think it's supermatch time! I'm still injured (both hands) but I think my right is good enough for a supermatch. I challenge Jamieson Lalande to a right hand supermatch since he is in 20th place. Stephane Fortier will be next since he is in 19th place.
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Post by Eric Roussin on Feb 23, 2012 9:48:50 GMT -5
Assuming Jamieson is interested, I could host this supermatch at the Brockville Ribfest on August 11th. I realize it's a few months away, but let me know if you think you'd want to do this.
You guys may run into each other before then, assuming you both go to the Mike Gould Classic.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2012 10:27:58 GMT -5
Great attitude Rob! Looking forward to watching this.
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Post by John Milne on Feb 23, 2012 11:35:45 GMT -5
If the latest rankings update is final I think it's supermatch time! I'm still injured (both hands) but I think my right is good enough for a supermatch. I challenge Jamieson Lalande to a right hand supermatch since he is in 20th place. Stephane Fortier will be next since he is in 19th place. Awesome! |
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Post by Rob Hancock on Feb 23, 2012 13:59:29 GMT -5
I was hoping for something a little sooner than 6 months away. It's clear that this will be a waste of my time , but here's my offer. If I have to travel that far and wait that long I think I'm going to have to take theses guys on 2 at a time! I will supermatch Jamieson Lalande and Stephane Fortier on the right and Martin Potvin (16th place) and Josh Hopkins (15th place) on the left! These guys are the pullers that are currently ranked in the 2 positions above me. Jamieson is the only one of these guys I know, I've never heard of the rest. My goal is to prove how far off these rankings really are.
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Post by John Milne on Feb 23, 2012 14:59:03 GMT -5
I was hoping for something a little sooner than 6 months away. It's clear that this will be a waste of my time , but here's my offer. If I have to travel that far and wait that long I think I'm going to have to take theses guys on 2 at a time! I will supermatch Jamieson Lalande and Stephane Fortier on the right and Martin Potvin (16th place) and Josh Hopkins (15th place) on the left! These guys are the pullers that are currently ranked in the 2 positions above me. Jamieson is the only one of these guys I know, I've never heard of the rest. My goal is to prove how far off these rankings really are. This is awesome. I'd love to see this. |
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Post by G Ronald on Feb 23, 2012 15:19:42 GMT -5
:-) get er done ......lol kudos Rob !!
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Post by Eric Roussin on Feb 23, 2012 15:20:21 GMT -5
I'll provide the venue, but I'm not interested in doing the legwork in setting these matches up.
Rob, I'll forward you the contact information I have for these pullers and you can get in touch with them directly.
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