Olympics

[Bilal Kreidieh]

I think a big portion of those euro athletes would be disqualified based on steroid abuse were this an Olympic sport. just sayin

[Will Sarty]

100% agree

[Rick Pinkney]

John M: I'm using facts based on past performance at Worlds. Would Devon be a lock for a medal - 99% as everyone has a bad day (note his Arnold performance) IF HE WENT, as we know Devon's work schedule and he would have to make that event plus a qualifying event. George also, however if it's in Europe George won't be there. And I wouldn't call that match "George playing with him".

There are others that could compete for a podium including Anthony, Marlon, Matt W., Will. Again a pretty sparse crowd.

We have only had 5 podium finishes in the past 5 years (in the open division). All were bronze with the exception of Joyce King's GOLD in 2007. Also there would not be as many classes which again would hurt us.




Bilal: Top finishers are tested using WADA standards at WADA accredited labs.

[John Milne]

Rick - Re: "Facts based on past performances at Worlds"
Devon has FOUR podium finishes at Worlds. There is a history lesson for you. He is much better now than he was then (I'm sure anyone would agree with that. Look at the entire history please. He's proven himself there.

To Anyone - Please name me 3 athletes (both arms) at 242 who would likely finish ahead of Devon at Worlds. I'll be very interested if anyone could come up with a viable list to this.

[John Milne]

Aug 13, 2012 12:05:21 GMT -5 Will Sarty said:

"Nice support system we have here. This is even coming from one of our highest elected positions." John Milne


This was the comment I was referring to. You can drop the tone on this board. Yes you presented two people. I mentioned Ontario because I would pick Anthony over George anyday. Nobody bashed Canada or our athletes. He simply stated it would be extremely hard to compete and hit the podium with the Euros, based on the way they train, already in the mentality that it is infact an Olympic sport.

You attending World level events is very relevant. Rick sees the caliber of athletes that attend the worlds EVERY year. If this was open to the Olympics do you think it would only be two people per country per class. I doubt that very much. I think the European countries would demolish us (besides people like Devon) like they already do at the World medal count, but more so if they were allowed to send more than the allotted 2 people.

Since 2008 Canada has hit the podium less than 25 times. This is over 22 categories (corrct me if im wrong) for each year! Thats 88 Categories with 264 chances to get a medal, and we have less than 25. Those are the facts. Now you throw in the mix that a country would be able to send more than 2 athletes per class per country, Wow. 90% of those medals were won by Dave Hicks, Sylvio Bourque, and Earl Wilson. All in the Masters/Grand Masters category, which would most likely not be in the Olympics.

I would NEVER take away what our athletes have done at the World level, nor Devons ranking, nor Georges performance. I think what we have done given what we have for training, is incredible going against the Europeans who have the support system. We are not developing as a team as fast as the Euros. Thats a given. We go to the Worlds already behind.

But there is no need to say Rick, being at his level on the executive, doesnt support our Canadian Arm Wrestlers. Thats pushing it John

I'll try to go through this point by point.

OK, add Anthony to that list. He's awesome but in a tournament I'd favour George. If they met each other Anthony has proven he can beat him but I think if there was a million dollars on the line and 25 entries George would be favoured over AD. Just my "bubble" opinion.

I never said anyone bashed Canada or our athletes. It's more about not giving these men their due respect that they've fought hard for over the years. Stop trying to put words in my mouth, it diminishes your credibility in this argument.

If I need to attend Worlds to have a relevant opinion then stop reading here. Do not reply to me. I don't intend to engage anyone who wishes to disarm me while they load up.

I did not say Rick does not support Canadian Arm Wrestlers. I did say however that he's not giving credit where it's due (to a select few - aforementioned). Moreover, he's discrediting past performances (Larratt's FOUR podiums), his incredible improvements and his dominance over current multiple time and dominant WAF Champions.

Do you think Devon could podium at Worlds (242 or supers)? Answer me that, let me know if I have a valid rebuttal to what Rick said originally.

[Devon Larratt]

I will jump in since i heard my name haha.

THe question isn't really about who could place at World's its about the direction armwrestling should take.

I have traveled a fair bit to armwrestle, i have observed alot of differences in the cultures and mindsets in armwrestling related to geography. I think that Armwrestling is very strong here in Canada. I think it always has been, and always will be. Is it cause its cold?(i read somewhere that makes your tendons strong haha). As we all know it is strong here because it is an activity that we do as kids, some people are drawn to it, train and dedicate a large part of their lives to it. We have promoters who help keep the sport alive. I personally belive that armwrestling here in ontario has never been stronger, but i have only been watching 15 years or so.

It comes down to 1 massive point. Govenment Recognition. IF we had it.... it would change everything. From my point of view, i think we really do want it, but it will come at a cost, and it would change alot of things. One of the things the North american/non government recognition countries have is a culture of freindship and sharing. I belive that is why our club scene is good, and technically our country is very strong. People teach each other everything, they are here because they love the sport. If there was government money, this may change, maybe not, but there would likely be only so much money and that would be competitive, and would change our culture significantly. so.. my opinion it would be great, but it would pose its own challenges, and i would hate to see our culture weaken as a result, leaders would have to be carefull and well chosen (by no means am i saying they are currently not ).

However.. the way things really are. THere is no government money. People do it cause they love it.

In my humble opinion, and i have said this before, it makes zero sense in my mind to support a WAF chain in canada untill we have recognition. THere are Sooooo many good alternatives. Arm Melter league, The Mike GOuld Classic (the real canadian nationals), tons of pro tournaments ( You actually can make your gas money back + maybe a bit), and eventually ARMWARS, PAL, and whatever else big tournament pops up (wait for the crossfit games next year ) Understand that anytime you are competing outside of Canada you are representing your country, WAF or any tournament/league.

Anyways all i am saying is - if it was recognized, i would pull 3 tournaments a year provincials, nats, and worlds, and i would encourage everyone else to do so,but its not... so i encourage everyone to Try to become Armmelter champ (if you live close) Set your sites on tournaments or leagues that will give you what you need in terms of exposure/finances so that you can feel like a responsible person at the end of the day... and if not, thats cool, just stay in the clubs, train get stronger and enjoy it, because this is what at the end of it all makes us still the best country in armwrestling.

[Will Sarty]

Look. I'm out on this. We can both agree Devon is a god and would certainly be Canadas hopeful at the Podium. I simply felt your comment towards Rick was not warranted

My personal opinion, regarding this topic, i agree, Arm Wrestling should be mirrored to UFC. If however it goes the route of Olympics, I agree with Rick that Canada would be very slack in getting people on the podium, numbers wise.

This was not an attack on you John, and never said in ANY of my posts about Devon not medalling. I think you have a bit of a man crush as you have mentioned him in EVERY post. Despite that, I too am a huge Devon fan. He is by far the smartest and strongest pullers ever. So you can drop that point, it has been beaten to death

[John Milne]

That's quite a respectful exit.

[John Milne]

Clever too. A parting shot (or two) and "I'm out".

Backing out while firing? I expected more from you, I guess I misjudged you.

[Rick Pinkney]

John, how am I discrediting Devon. You need to reread my last post. At no point did I say anything against Devon. I went back 5 years and stated the facts from Worlds. Devon nor George have been at Worlds the past 5 years. Even if they were at Worlds "Oh Canada" would still be just a blip compared to the Russian National anthem. By the end of Worlds you can hum it by heart. I'm talking Senior classes not Master, Diabled etc. Not to mention if you see the quality of the Juniors that they have coming up through the ranks it's scary

[John Milne]

I've stated all reasons as to why I think you did Rick.

I've been very clear and mostly point by point. I don't know how to lay it out more plainly, but I'll try.

Current number 1 both arms
Proven podium placements in previous WAF's

and..

Is still doubtful to podium? I find this a sharp statement and without merit. I think it's driven by something other than logic. I'm not sure what the agenda is but I'd bet that if you polled the armwrestling community they would find that statement foolish and to an extend an attempt to discredit.

If you honestly believe this then please name me 3 (each arm) that would reasonably push him off the podium at 242 lbs. Maybe you have a valid argument and I'm just blinded.

[Matt Wiggins]

"There are others that could compete for a podium including Anthony, Marlon, Matt W., Will. Again a pretty sparse crowd."
hahaha Rick surley you jest, i know i wouldn't stand a chance at podium finish, let alone top 20. not at worlds, not at olympics.

the competion at worlds is crazy can anyone even fathom how brutal it would be for the olympics, im with rick i think canada would have a very hard time putting anyone in the top 3. depending of course the tournament layout. and if the government was backing us.

[Bilal Kreidieh]

Aug 13, 2012 19:43:49 GMT -5 John Milne said:

I've stated all reasons as to why I think you did Rick.

I've been very clear and mostly point by point. I don't know how to lay it out more plainly, but I'll try.

Current number 1 both arms
Proven podium placements in previous WAF's

and..

Is still doubtful to podium? I find this a sharp statement and without merit. I think it's driven by something other than logic. I'm not sure what the agenda is but I'd bet that if you polled the armwrestling community they would find that statement foolish and to an extend an attempt to discredit.

If you honestly believe this then please name me 3 (each arm) that would reasonably push him off the podium at 242 lbs. Maybe you have a valid argument and I'm just blinded.

I think the point he was trying ti make is that total medal count would be low. Devon would get first, I wholeheartedly believe that. Who else? How long will George compete? I was under the assumption he's getting out while on top? Someone said he's not going to compete anymore...

I also don't believe anyone else, apart from Devon, would have an easy time in an event this big, i.e. Olympics.

[Bilal Kreidieh]

Aug 13, 2012 17:04:58 GMT -5 Rick Pinkney said:

John M: I'm using facts based on past performance at Worlds. Would Devon be a lock for a medal - 99% as everyone has a bad day (note his Arnold performance) IF HE WENT, as we know Devon's work schedule and he would have to make that event plus a qualifying event. George also, however if it's in Europe George won't be there. And I wouldn't call that match "George playing with him".

There are others that could compete for a podium including Anthony, Marlon, Matt W., Will. Again a pretty sparse crowd.

We have only had 5 podium finishes in the past 5 years (in the open division). All were bronze with the exception of Joyce King's GOLD in 2007. Also there would not be as many classes which again would hurt us.




Bilal: Top finishers are tested using WADA standards at WADA accredited labs.

Does Cyplenkov compete at worlds?

Also, when do they test for steroids? how many days before or after? Depending on the steroid, ans some of their half lifes and span, a lot of steroids cannot be detected unless the test is administered 4-6 hours within taking it, i.e. testosterone suspension, the strongest fastest acting form of testosterone out there. I'm making the point that just because someone does not test positive on juice, doesnt mean he's clean...i.e. Cyplenkov and CLEARLY many others

[Rick Pinkney]

The tests are done right after they get their medals. The Europeans are also tested at the Europan Championshis. No Cyplenkov does not pull at Worlds.