|
|
Post by Jason Manjin on Nov 21, 2012 10:17:29 GMT -5
Antoine reminds me alot of my cousin, who was like a brother who was killed 10 years ago almost to this day. Same age currently. Pretty boy, a pleasure to be around, lots of good energy, an awesome smile, awesome low hand toproller. He reminds me so much of him. But he is maybe just too pretty, so he should go down  ;D ;D. 2 big questions 1. Who is reffing?  Some refs believe that once you lose your hand that it is a foul unless you simply just let the other guy win at that point. All the toproller is doing is going full bore into your finger tips and you are the only poor sap that is supposed to hang on!! OR he will regrip(let go) and regrip higher and it is still only your fault that the grips come apart?? I posted up with Kyle Kerswill at the easterns, He got the higher grip and and took control of my hand, I knew (because I am smart like that) this was not good for me, I gripped for all could at that point, tranistioned quickly into a press, and almost pinned him and would have, as his elbow came way out the back we slipped. It bent my one finger nail back as I was holding on hard for what grip I had. I got called for a 2nd foul and loss at that point??WTF?? This is far from the first time. I would really hate to involve my arm fully in an ARMwrestling match when all you are allowed to do is play leverage games. 2. Hows his arm bones? Not super keen at this point to rip hard on the table. |
|
|
|
Post by Brad Wade on Nov 21, 2012 17:13:32 GMT -5
sorry Joe, thought the match was left. I'm out!
|
|
|
|
Post by John Milne on Nov 21, 2012 17:57:43 GMT -5
An "underhand slip" is NOT a foul, as I've seen it called. This is especially true in the offensive position when driving for the pin. The foul only comes when a puller INTENTIONALLY lets go and initiates a slip.
If I was called "underhand slip" I'd attempt a protest right there as there is no rule saying this is a foul.
Calls are being made incorrectly regarding this. I know the assumption is that if you lose your hand that it's automatically your foul but this is not the letter of the law. Intent is the only factor determining a foul regarding slipping.
Rules here:
The referee will call one foul for “Intentional slip out” when:
a) You lift your fingers off your opponent’s hand prior to a slippage
b) You close your fingers as to make a fist inside your opponent’s hand
c) You’re in break wrist position and you pull your fingers inside your opponent’s hand, therefore you are unable to hold your grip.
d) Straps will be used when any match ends by way of a slip-out not resulting in a foul. A slip-out occurs when both competitors have lost complete contact with one another. The official must be certain of the circumstances preceding the actual slip out before calling a foul. If the official is uncertain as to who caused the slippage or it was caused by the actions of both competitors, then straps will be used and NO FOUL will be given.
It's as plain as day here folks. No intent = no foul. If in bent wrist and you're actively pulling out then it's a foul. If you're driving and still trying to hang on it's NO foul. Hand control means NOTHING. Where you are on the table means NOTHING regarding issuing a foul.
I would protest Mr. Manjin (or at least attempt it). I know you were unhappy with some calls regarding this and I understood why. Perhaps you could talk to the referee in chief regarding this or your tournament directors. You could even talk to the ref's before the tournament and let them know of your concerns. It can't hurt.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jeff Slater on Nov 21, 2012 19:08:04 GMT -5
Mr Manjin,
You should do this match, if you are not sore.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jason Manjin on Nov 21, 2012 19:18:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the good input Johnny. You have been a d**n good asset to this part of armwrestling as well. I am not begrudging any ref for making a bad call, I have been there, done that too myself, and I know it can be difficult, and refs don't get enough kudos when they do an awesome job, but this is different.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bilal Kreidieh on Nov 21, 2012 20:47:51 GMT -5
An "underhand slip" is NOT a foul, as I've seen it called. This is especially true in the offensive position when driving for the pin. The foul only comes when a puller INTENTIONALLY lets go and initiates a slip. If I was called "underhand slip" I'd attempt a protest right there as there is no rule saying this is a foul. Calls are being made incorrectly regarding this. I know the assumption is that if you lose your hand that it's automatically your foul but this is not the letter of the law. Intent is the only factor determining a foul regarding slipping. Rules here:The referee will call one foul for “Intentional slip out” when:
a) You lift your fingers off your opponent’s hand prior to a slippage
b) You close your fingers as to make a fist inside your opponent’s hand
c) You’re in break wrist position and you pull your fingers inside your opponent’s hand, therefore you are unable to hold your grip.
d) Straps will be used when any match ends by way of a slip-out not resulting in a foul. A slip-out occurs when both competitors have lost complete contact with one another. The official must be certain of the circumstances preceding the actual slip out before calling a foul. If the official is uncertain as to who caused the slippage or it was caused by the actions of both competitors, then straps will be used and NO FOUL will be given.It's as plain as day here folks. No intent = no foul. If in bent wrist and you're actively pulling out then it's a foul. If you're driving and still trying to hang on it's NO foul. Hand control means NOTHING. Where you are on the table means NOTHING regarding issuing a foul. I would protest Mr. Manjin (or at least attempt it). I know you were unhappy with some calls regarding this and I understood why. Perhaps you could talk to the referee in chief regarding this or your tournament directors. You could even talk to the ref's before the tournament and let them know of your concerns. It can't hurt. I got fouled twice for an underhanded slip in the Nitro tournament...once against Jeff and another against Kyle...both of which I believe were not fouls...they were certainly not intentional and it takes two to hang on...I was doing all the hanging on and still slipped...I'm still not sure how that's a foul?? |
|
|
|
Post by John Milne on Nov 21, 2012 21:00:24 GMT -5
This rule is tricky or I should say can be tricky. It can be a discretionary call so to speak. Some are very obvious, some are not. The ones are NOT obvious should go to straps in my opinion. As much as I don't like to see flop wrists, one should not be punished for it. Looking forward - I think this rule should eventually go by the way of ArmWars where all slips go to straps. I'm hoping all the rules get changed evenutally. I think it's a far superior set of rules. As a ref I agree that it can be a difficult job. Things happen very quickly and you must use your judgement quickly as well or it looks like you don't know what you're doing. Almost every tournament has negative feedback of some sort that ends up on the boards. One must have a thick skin to not let it bother them. Refs really are trying to do the best job they can, so I'm not picking on that. I've been on the end of that and it doesn't feel too good. I guess that's one of the reasons why I enjoy working the mic. If I make a mistake nobody yells at me  |
|
|
|
Post by Bilal Kreidieh on Nov 23, 2012 23:13:28 GMT -5
I agree, the refs do a great job and it's a hard job...but sometimes it sucks when you unintentionally slip and you get given a foul.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bilal Kreidieh on Nov 23, 2012 23:13:59 GMT -5
Quick question: When is it okay to argue with a ref about a call, if ever?
|
|
|
|
Post by Jeff Slater on Nov 23, 2012 23:41:09 GMT -5
You can appeal calls at the Nationals and Worlds.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joe Gould on Nov 24, 2012 10:08:59 GMT -5
Match up confirmed. Allen Ford will challenge Antoine Dubreuil for the 220lb Canadian Professional Championship belt at Arm Melter 16, December 8th, Rossmore. I know I had posted that I would prefer a lower ranked opponent for Antoine, (it's short notice now, and I think high ranked opponents should have to earn title shots), but Antoine said he wanted this match up. It's perfect. Check out both pullers profiles at www.armmelter.com |
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Charles on Nov 24, 2012 15:39:51 GMT -5
im very excited to see this!!!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2012 18:51:47 GMT -5
What Ryan, the match or Allen humpin the table again?
|
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Charles on Nov 24, 2012 21:15:50 GMT -5
Dont judge me for saying a little bit of both....... lol. Im gonna say that Allen wins 3-1
|
|
|
|
Post by Bilal Kreidieh on Nov 25, 2012 18:55:44 GMT -5
This one is tough to call I think. Antoine looked very tough last tournament. This is going to be a war.
|
|
;D ;D. 
