Making weight

[Don Smith]

I have come across several videos where an armwrestler is competing at one weight class at a tournament, then competing two weight classes higher at another tournament, with only about a month in between. This seems like a large change in the persons physical make up in a very short time. Now this is possible. People cut weight and then gain it back, but it also possible that they never should have been in the lower weight class to begin with. Honestly, if a tournament promoter gave me the chance to compete at 176 I would take it. Why not. If I am the bigger guy then I have a better chance to win. Again to be honest, if I was promoting a tournament, and a friend, teammate, or someone willing to pay came and made a personal request, it would by hard to refuse them. After all if they choose not to armwrestle the event loses money. It just seems like there is to much self interest in both party's to always have a fair weight in. A third party should be doing it at all sanctioned events. If you go to a local tournament for ten dollars an arm I wouldn't lose sleep over it. If you go to a sanctioned event and it's not legit then it lowers the sport of armwrestling.

[Bilal Kreidieh]

Cutting weight is an important aspect of competition in pretty much every competitive sport, unless you're playing tennis or golf...that being said, I don't really cut weight and I think that weigh ins should be on the same day as the tournament. some tournaments give you two days in advance to weight in...people would come in at 20 lbs heavier on tournament date which would def. give you a huge advantage.

[Hugh Brodie]

Ideal situation - step on a scale when you are called for your first match. If you don't make weight, you are removed from that class and given the option to move to a heavier class.

[Don Smith]

True Bilal but at least you would know ahead of time that you would have 24 or 48 hours to recover. Then you could make up your mind how you wanted to handle that. It would be the same for everyone and that's what makes it fair. If someone in the 242's came down and armwrestled you, and you won, it's no big deal. But, if you lost, now you could argue it didn't count and rankings shouldn't change. In order for the rankings to be legit and the sport to have integrity it must be the same for everyone. Hard enough to get fans already (do to the fact people just don't understand the sport) but you could lose some if people think the sport is rigged.

[Don Smith]

Hugh that is genius

[Eric Roussin]

May 22, 2013 15:03:03 GMT -5 Hugh Brodie said:

Ideal situation - step on a scale when you are called for your first match. If you don't make weight, you are removed from that class and given the option to move to a heavier class.

I don't agree that this is an ideal situation. It would make scorekeeping a nightmare!

[Eric Roussin]

Is this really an issue? Are people regularly allowed to compete in a weight class for which they don't qualify? When and where does this happen? Or is it simply the fact that some competitors "look" too heavy to be in a given class?

[Will Sarty]

Honestly, I feel that an athlete should weigh in the day of the competition.

In Arm wrestling, where Worlds are multiple days, you would need to weigh in on the day you compete.

Logistically it would be difficult. But, I agree with Hugh and others that a person shouldn't be allowed to drop 30lbs to enter a category and gain 15-20 back before they compete.

[Don Smith]

Those are very good questions Eric and there is no way that I could know the extent that it occurs. Also some guys really do look huge at their weight. The problem is, it doesn't have to be a rampant issue for people to call it out. It only takes one or two true stories to make people think its not fair, or that it is the norm and they should be allowed to do it too. When I used to wrestle in collage there were always two refs to watch the weigh in. You might get screwed by the ref in the match but weigh ins were always legit. I love armwrestling and want the sport to go mainstream (yes I know its probably not happening soon) but anything that can be done to remove discrepancies can only help the sport.

[John Milne]

May 22, 2013 15:03:03 GMT -5 Hugh Brodie said:

Ideal situation - step on a scale when you are called for your first match. If you don't make weight, you are removed from that class and given the option to move to a heavier class.

I've spoke of this before. I really like this idea.

I had not considered it to be a huge problem for scorekeepers but I can see where it potentially may be.

I think weigh ins should only happen on the day of. I don't like all the weight cutting personally but everyone has their right to as long as it's deemed fair.

[Eric Roussin]

At large events such as Worlds, where there are 1,000+ entries, weigh-ins are done ahead because of the logistics involved. However, I agree that weigh-ins the day of the event, when possible, is fairest for all.

But there are also other things people could complain about when it comes to weigh-ins:

The scale - At Nationals and Worlds a calibrated scale needs to be used. Calibrated scales are expensive, and are typically rented for these events. Should a calibrated scale be used for all sanctioned events? In my opinion, the amount of revenue generated from most events doesn't justify this expense. I know in Nova Scotia the association purchased a calibrated scale a few years ago and is used at their events. This is possible in a smaller province where the same people attend all events, but it's much harder to coordinate in a large province such as ours. And even if a scale is calibrated, it must be re-calibrated on a regular basis in order to ensure it remains accurate, which also requires time, cost, and effort. As a promoter, I use my bathroom scale, which I find to be pretty accurate based on comparisons I've done with calibrated weight plates. However, I accept that it may not be exact, so I realize that 177 on my scale may in reality be 176. Even the UFC allows a pound over their scale, which I'm sure is very accurate.

Clothed vs. unclothed weigh-ins - At Nationals and Worlds, competitors must make the exact weight as shown on the scale, but they can get undressed to make the weight. This can be difficult to coordinate at a regular sanctioned event, where only an hour or two is allotted to weigh-ins and there are 100+ entries. If the class is 176, and someone weighs in fully-dressed with boots on and the scale shows 181, I don't need that person to get undressed to know that he makes 176, so I don't ask them to. I think a clothing allowance is fine, but judgment should be used. If someone takes off his shoes and weighs in only wearing shorts and a tank top, then 6 pounds over shouldn't be allowed. That's why I'm not a fan of a clothing allowance with a fixed number (i.e. a 5-lb clothing allowance).

Can you imagine dealing with these issues once someone is called for their first match? It would really slow things down, and people already think tournaments go too slow.

[Don Smith]

It is good to hear from a promoters point of view as it comes from trying to make a tournament work. With a hundred + entry's it would be a nightmare to have people weigh in before every class started. Maybe it would be possible to have a third party, such as a ref, weigh people in with the promoter. If I was running a tournament it would keep things fair. I personally have weighed myself on a calibrated scale, my collage's scale, only to find the other collage's scale to be a quarter to three quarters off. I guess the spin of the earth was effecting one more then the other(sarcasm). My coach used to say 'always come in a pound under". Clothing allowance is great if the same for everyone and don't see a problem with you using common sense to weigh people in. The weigh ins are an important part of the tournament as they start the day and choose who faces who.

[Hugh Brodie]

You could build this extra time (weigh-ins at the table) into the time allocated for the event - it would only delay the first round of matches. There would be no (official) weigh-ins at registration - competitors would check their (unofficial) weights, and select a class (and then head to the sauna, if needed). With computer-generated draw sheets, it should be minimal trouble to modify entries "on the fly" where necessary.

[Eric Roussin]

May 22, 2013 23:00:01 GMT -5 Hugh Brodie said:

You could build this extra time (weigh-ins at the table) into the time allocated for the event - it would only delay the first round of matches. There would be no (official) weigh-ins at registration - competitors would check their (unofficial) weights, and select a class (and then head to the sauna, if needed). With computer-generated draw sheets, it should be minimal trouble to modify entries "on the fly" where necessary.

I'm not sold on the need for people to weigh in immediately before competing (at the table, class by class). Is this done for any other weight class sport? If not, I don't see why it should be required for armwrestling.

I agree that two people monitoring the weigh-in process is a good idea. It can just be difficult for smaller events when tournament staff is limited.

[Don Smith]

I agree with Eric. At first I loved Hugh's idea but after some thought I think it would cause confusion and slow things down. Imagine you called two people up and one didn't make weight, then the next person also didn't make weight. Now the promoter weighs in a third person and while bumping the other two up a class. It would really slow down the first round of the event. When I run my first event having another person watching the weigh ins would go a long way in keeping things fair. A lot harder to say John Milne weighed 198 with someone looking over my shoulder.