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Post by Bill Cameron on Apr 1, 2011 20:22:56 GMT -5
i think more comps would be great saying this from a puller point of view and i would do it something like this i would have three ams classes maybe 0-154 154-198 198 plus and pro 0-176 176-198 198 and over i no plenty of smaller guys that can pull with the big boys just my 2 cents
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Post by John Milne on Apr 1, 2011 20:46:35 GMT -5
I don't like the novice class idea. I will say that Guy's even was a success but I think it would have been anyway.
If the area/event is big enough (ex. MGC) then I like the idea of having am's/pro's. If the promoter can get more entries this way then I think it's good for him to do so. After all, events need to be a success or they will not continue. You will always get people protecting their ego's by pulling novice/am when they could be winning matches in pro's but at the same token, I don't think the novice guys should get an easy ride either. It's kind of a catch 22 situation.
More back on topic regarding Eric's original post. Yes, I do think that more events will be better for the sport. Eric was right that it might cause the guys to stay local in our "small pond" and not venture out but those guys will not achieve big successes that way. It's nice being able to catch a tourney very frequently (especially if you are a ref or looking to build up your reffing skills). MORE GUYS SHOULD BE DOING THIS BTW!!
The scene here is great, we are developing talent at all levels but we don't need to be catering to/sheltering new guys. If a guy is an armwrestler then he'll come, if he is just in it for ego he wont last anyway. We all take WAY more lumps than wins and yet we're still here.
Before someone gets carried away with "the new guys are the future of the sport" debate lets remember that the future of the sport are the dedicated guys, not necessarily the "new" guys.
Big props to all promoters. They take the financial risk, they struggle with schedules, venue's, arranging ref's, plus hiccups along the way. Kudo's to Joe Gould, Mike Gould, Eric Roussin, Mark Zalepa, Guy Windover, Al Aubin, Chris Gobby, Mike Destroyer, Big Luke, Maksim Khodau, The Big Pimp Brooks, Rick Blanchard and everyone else who makes it all possible for us.
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Post by Bill Cameron on Apr 2, 2011 7:20:39 GMT -5
yes you are the man John thats what i was tryin to say LOL.
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Post by Jason Manjin on Apr 2, 2011 10:37:12 GMT -5
I’d like to know how everyone feels about this subject. Currently there is an average of about 15 OAA tournaments held each year. However, I know that it would be relatively easy to have 25-30+ events each year. I’m starting to be contacted more frequently by fair and festival organizers, bar owners, and armwrestlers who are interested in holding events. I think this is great, but I think we should be cautious regarding how many events are run. Almost everyone who puts on an event wants to get a big turnout. Currently, circuit events are averaging 90+ entries, while regular sanctioned events are averaging closer to 60. The big events (MGC, Provincials) get well over 100 entries. However, if all of a sudden there were twice as many events, would I be correct to assume average attendance levels would drop? And if so, are we fine with this if it would means more choice regarding which events to attend? 20+ years ago, there were more events being run, probably 30+ each year. Although I wasn’t competing back then, I hear lots of pullers attended many of these events. However, with significant increases in gas prices, I don’t think it’s realistic to expect pullers will compete every other weekend throughout the year, travelling up to several hundred kilometres each time. Maybe I’m wrong – let me know your thoughts on this. I think there is room for more small regional events – a handful of extra events in each of the different regions. Some of these could be designated amateur. Some could have fewer classes. Some could use different formats. However, I think tournament directors who put on these events would have to lower their expectations and be satisfied if the event only gets 30 or 40 entries. I’m looking for feedback on these issues, as we’re trying to establish the event schedule for the remainder of the year, and we want it to be good as possible for both the promoters and the pullers. Any and all comments are appreciated. What is broken now?? Armwrestling in Ontario seems to be headed in the right direction after a couple of years of falling back. What we did last year I think works. I will agree about being cautious Eric or deviating too far away from what has helped armwrestling recover/rebound in Ontario. What happened 20-30 years ago (when Guy was 40)I don't think is valid today. I don't think we should go out of our way to add more events. Anybody that is good at math and common sense will tell you attendance per tournament WILL go down significantly. If 20 more FORD dealers pop up in Ontario the existing ones WILL sell significantly less than they were. The only wild card is demand, there better be alot more new buyers popping up or in this case armwrestlers. As far as pro/ams...should only be at big events where we know the top guys in each class are likely to attend. Triple elim tourneys would help new guys get more pulling and get a chance to pull someone close to their level before being eliminated as well |
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Post by Eric Roussin on Apr 2, 2011 11:58:48 GMT -5
I don't think anything is broken now. It's just that when a fair or festival contacts me with interest in hosting an event, I don't like turning them down. More events in these settings equals more exposure to the general public. However, I don't think it's right to take on these events if I think they will take away from other events. One way to go may be to take on these events, but promote them as being novice level only. Only a few classes would be offered, and turnout would likely be light, but I think the exposure may be worth it. Hopefully some locals will try it out, not get too discouraged, and get into the sport.
There seems to be a lot of different opinions on this subject. I appreciate all of the feedback.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2011 12:46:02 GMT -5
I agree with Jason. Things were different 20-30 years ago(when Guy was 40). And the balance right now seems about right.
Eric, Rick B has been running small local novice events with good succcess. And it never deters from the bigger events. I agree with you... Taking on these small events is great for bringing new guys in. just keep it novice/am.
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Post by Fayez Moutassem on Apr 2, 2011 15:21:52 GMT -5
how can Guy be 40 20 to 30 yrs ago? did he like remain 40 for 10 years? lol
iam thinking why not attract public attention through advertisement? having this website is good but many people don't know about it. i remember very well 2 years ago i was searching the web for an arm wrestling club in ontario but found none so i thought such a sport doesnt exist. i wanted to test my strength against real tough opponents because i thought i was invincible until i found this website by chance, met you guys and got spanked lol. i believe many other guys out there feel the same and would love to know about this. more advertising such as through mail flyers, public flyers, postings, websites, etc. can make a big difference. of course the best is through TV but thats difficult at this stage. Advertising can be made in general (for the sport) and for specific tournaments in specific cities. For the later, more public attention will depend on the city too.
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Post by Eric Roussin on Apr 2, 2011 15:41:20 GMT -5
I'm surprised when I hear that people search online for information on armwrestling and find nothing. Type in the following terms in Google and you'll find either the Canadian site, the Ontario site, one of the message boards, etc:
ontario armwrestling
canada armwrestling
armwrestling clubs in Ontario
In fact, even if you just type "armwrestling" you'll find plenty of sites that link to either the Ontario site or the Ontario message board.
Online advertising is great, because it's free for the most part. Any paid advertising (posters, newspaper ads, etc.) has an extremely low return on investment.
Most people who get into the sport nowadays do it from searching about armwrestling online, or through meeting someone who armwrestles.
This being said, when I run some events I often try to get a newspaper article written about it. This is free and does help.
In summary, I guess my thoughts on the matter are if it's free or costs very very little, it's worth a try. Otherwise, money can easily be wasted.
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Post by Hugh Brodie on Apr 3, 2011 0:00:33 GMT -5
Most major Canadian cities have free weekly papers - usually with a page or two of (no charge) announcements of local events. Plug your local club or tournament there!
Put up ads on public bulletin boards in colleges and universities. Arrange to bring a table to the start-of-the-university-school-year festivities in the fall.
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Post by Jason Manjin on Apr 3, 2011 11:16:07 GMT -5
Fayez, Guy is actually 78 years old and to his credit he has aged gracefully, so maybe we should not use his name in vein so nonchalantly as we do. I agree with small fair local tournys, I have been running one since 1999 in Teeswater and with that tourney and Ally piggy's ego, it blew up into the most active team in Ontario. I did not promote participation of skilled OAA pullers to attend unless they are locals and that has worked very well.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2011 12:52:36 GMT -5
Fayez, Guy is actually 78 years old and to his credit he has aged gracefully, so maybe we should not use his name in vein so nonchalantly as we do. I agree with small fair local tournys, I have been running one since 1999 in Teeswater and with that tourney and Ally piggy's ego, it blew up into the most active team in Ontario. I did not promote participation of skilled OAA pullers to attend unless they are locals and that has worked very well. So are you saying you had your ass kicked at the Western Ontario's by a 78 yr old man??? Wow, back to training Manjin. LMAO |
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Post by Dan Kadlec on Apr 3, 2011 16:52:16 GMT -5
Personally i am quite content with one tourney a month since i do want to support other teams events (mgc, southerns, westerns, etc) and my finances allow me to do this within reason. More events would just mean id have to pick and choose hoping there is a good turnout for a good tourney to learn and get table time against pullers.
As fir the whole "amateur/novice debate, i feel that there should be more oaa sponsored "novice" tourneys to allow people off the street to experience the sport and want to get into it. This will help the sport grow within the province.
Personally ( from experience with my paintball background) i feel that lumping the newbies with people that have some actual AW experience if not more, can deter them as it can be quite indimitating.
In summation, i feel that we need to open ip a way for new people to try the sport on their own calibre under proper reffing circumstances and this will allow them to get in the sport comfortably. If they like it, theyll join up on this forum, find a local team to practice n learn and then slowly get into the sport!
Just my two cents. Im looking at this from a perspective to help the sport grow.
--dan
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Post by Jeff Oosterveld on Apr 4, 2011 5:43:50 GMT -5
four years ago we had twice as many circuit sanctioned turnys as we do now whats up with that we as a team had over 300 points then 3 years a go we won with 165 points that to me is a big drop in turnys
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Post by John Osiecki on Apr 4, 2011 8:16:55 GMT -5
I am very new at this sport, so really take my input as a grain of salt so to speak....I think there are enough cicuit events in Ontario. I believe we need more amateur events to promote the sport, Throw in the odd pro into the amateurs to kick some ass and put the competitors and the spectators at AW!!! Like I did at a tournament I put on in Thunder Bay ON. last month. I invited Paul Belluz....a 173lb former national champion...He came out and showed us all what this sport was all about and WOWED!!!!!... everyone at the event. We need more new comers to get hooked on this sport and make the bigger events better. The closest event for me is North bay which is still 10 hrs away...I am trying to promote the sport in the northwest and I think its working. i'm hoping to bring more newcomers down south next year.
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Post by Eric Roussin on Apr 4, 2011 8:45:42 GMT -5
During the 2007-2008 season, there were 7 circuit sanctioned events, plus the Provincial Championships. There would have only been 6 plus the Provincials (one circuit per region), but the Carrot Festival had already been awarded circuit status before I came on as President with a new plan. Soon after the schedule was set for that season, I discovered that points from only 5 events plus Provincials are what are measured for comparisons with other provinces to determine the CAWF Puller of the Year. Since the 2008-2009 season, there have been only 5 circuit sanctioned events plus Provincials to match what is done (or supposed to be done) in most of the other provinces.
Teeswater Thunder had so many points in 2007-2008 in part because Mapleton Madness and Harriston Havoc had not yet branched off.
The OAA is still averaging about 15 events per year. However, a number of promoters are promoting smaller events throughout the province (John Osiecki, Jeff Kaye, Tanya Morrissette, Rick Blanchard, Serge Desroches, Jason Manjin, among others), which I’m hoping can be brought under the OAA umbrella even though they would remain primarily local/amateur events. The major requirement is that CAWF certified referees and standard table dimensions be used.
Look for a few more smaller events to be added this year.
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