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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2011 19:19:38 GMT -5
Fair enough bro. If u are dilligent enough about ur health to get ur liver and kidney values checked. I ll concede to your judgement with ur individual case.
At 230, No drugs. 8000-9000 cal/day (always ate throughout the night). My natural test and gh levels between ages 21-25 were well above average. Creatine mono was becoming popular and I was on it 6-8 months/year. Never did cardio, workouts were 45 min one day on one day off, weight lifting oriented (zero isolation exercises). After 25, I had much trouble keeping my weight over 200(despite similar cal intake).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2011 19:33:40 GMT -5
Also bilal, I'm not saying 60+ grams can't be consumed. I'm saying that if done every meal, every day. There can/will be longterm ramifications. My info is not coming from b building journals or mags but medical research done over a long period of time. I ve read as well that consuming high levels of protein(long term) can be harmfull for joints.(not ideal for aw' ers).
If Jays goal was to be a world class pro 270lb body builder b4 the age of 35, than sure 300+grams would be prudent (still dangerous long term IMO). But he's not. He tryin to add maybe 5 lbs to become a stronger arm wrestler.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2011 19:41:04 GMT -5
I've also journaled my progress as an aw'er I've the years. I've made as strong of gains (static strength) on 1g/lb as I have on 2g/per (all other variables remain equal). Results don't lie. So I err on the side of caution (long term) and choose .75-.90 per.
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Post by Bilal Kreidieh on Jun 13, 2011 22:54:44 GMT -5
Fair enough. You make some good points. Different strokes for different folks. Agreed on the fact that as an arm wrestler looking for strength gains, he doesn't need that much protein. Good argument though...I love discussions about training and strength.
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Post by Jay Riehle on Jun 13, 2011 23:18:10 GMT -5
Wow!!!!! Now that we've got everybodies attention, lol...........anyhow the 30min. phone conversation that I had with Chris was very enlightening and I am going to stick to the wise advice he has bestowed upon me. Sorry Bilal Thank you for your advice but Chris is correct in saying that I am not looking to be ripped at 198lbs just strong as hell. I couldn't give a sh*t what I look like or how big I am, I am here to be amongst the best armwrestlers in the world. That is my goal & that is what is going to happen. Period. I thank you guys very much for your advice because trust me I NEED IT!!!! I realize now that it is going to take time to reach my goal I am overtraining because I want to be up there with Allen Ford & Anatoly etc. NOW but Chris has explained to me that I am doing much more harm then good by lifting weights everyday sometimes 3 or 4 times a day. (again I'm more than dedicated) But again thank you guys very very much for your wise words and wisdom I am sure this won't be the last time I will reach out for your advice.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2011 23:35:56 GMT -5
Fair enough. You make some good points. Different strokes for different folks. Agreed on the fact that as an arm wrestler looking for strength gains, he doesn't need that much protein. Good argument though...I love discussions about training and strength. agreed! It's always fun getting involved in these type threads. |
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Post by Bilal Kreidieh on Jun 14, 2011 7:35:40 GMT -5
Wow!!!!! Now that we've got everybodies attention, lol...........anyhow the 30min. phone conversation that I had with Chris was very enlightening and I am going to stick to the wise advice he has bestowed upon me. Sorry Bilal Thank you for your advice but Chris is correct in saying that I am not looking to be ripped at 198lbs just strong as hell. I couldn't give a sh*t what I look like or how big I am, I am here to be amongst the best armwrestlers in the world. That is my goal & that is what is going to happen. Period. I thank you guys very much for your advice because trust me I NEED IT!!!! I realize now that it is going to take time to reach my goal I am overtraining because I want to be up there with Allen Ford & Anatoly etc. NOW but Chris has explained to me that I am doing much more harm then good by lifting weights everyday sometimes 3 or 4 times a day. (again I'm more than dedicated) But again thank you guys very very much for your wise words and wisdom I am sure this won't be the last time I will reach out for your advice. Good luck man. Kill that shit!! |
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Post by Stefan Straub on Jun 14, 2011 10:26:39 GMT -5
Incorrect Bilal. The 250lb+ pro b builder can possibly assimilate 60g per sitting. However short of that, 30g/per is as much as the body wants to handle. The exception is directly after training and upon waking where 45-50g can be absorbed (due to depletion). "eat 300g of protein if u wanna be as big as a 300lber". It's this type of advice that will leave a guy on a dialysis machine at age of 50 (due to lack of kidney function). Bilal, in my early 20's I weighed 230lbs (15%). Benched 460, cheat curled 245... And protein intake was no more than 1g/lb. There are many other (natural) variables to acheiving size and strength than overloading crazy amounts of protein. I have to disagree dude. Old school of thought - 30 grams of protein is what you can consume, in the times when Arnold was the biggest dude out there. Times have changed. Discvoeries made in that field and people came out and said you can consume almost double if you are healthy and gradually work your body to doing so. When I bulk, I barely change my carb intake, just take a lot more protein and I get much bigger. My liver values, enzymes and kidney values are on par. Yes, it may stress the liver a little bit, but advil stresses th eliver way more than protein intake..so do most pain killers and medicine, but you take em anyways to get better....same thing with protein. When you where walking around at 230 lbs at your height, you were taking other "things" to get that big...naturally, with less than one gram of protein is impossible unless you are a genetic freak...no offense. I know as much about this subject as anyone on this board knows about arm wrestling. If your going to mention someone like Arnold... lets look at the facts.. Long life of roids... heart transplant..eating and living like a BB is not healthy.. FACT.. that is just one example.. if you follow BB you already know this. Bilah if you want to live to 45-50 and start having organ failure be my guest man.. I am just saying I know these things and of course you can go past your bodies limits and intake much more than your liver and kidneys can handle.. but be warned, like Gobby and I have stated there will be sever side affects. Best of luck. |
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Post by Bilal Kreidieh on Jun 14, 2011 13:38:48 GMT -5
I have to disagree dude. Old school of thought - 30 grams of protein is what you can consume, in the times when Arnold was the biggest dude out there. Times have changed. Discvoeries made in that field and people came out and said you can consume almost double if you are healthy and gradually work your body to doing so. When I bulk, I barely change my carb intake, just take a lot more protein and I get much bigger. My liver values, enzymes and kidney values are on par. Yes, it may stress the liver a little bit, but advil stresses th eliver way more than protein intake..so do most pain killers and medicine, but you take em anyways to get better....same thing with protein. When you where walking around at 230 lbs at your height, you were taking other "things" to get that big...naturally, with less than one gram of protein is impossible unless you are a genetic freak...no offense. I know as much about this subject as anyone on this board knows about arm wrestling. If your going to mention someone like Arnold... lets look at the facts.. Long life of roids... heart transplant..eating and living like a BB is not healthy.. FACT.. that is just one example.. if you follow BB you already know this. Bilah if you want to live to 45-50 and start having organ failure be my guest man.. I am just saying I know these things and of course you can go past your bodies limits and intake much more than your liver and kidneys can handle.. but be warned, like Gobby and I have stated there will be sever side affects. Best of luck. dude, Arnold has all these problems because of abusing roids, NOT because of protein intake. Where do you base your information? have you studied this? research? Are you just going by what you heard in the gym? media? I base my information on resarch and studying I did at university...I started doing business as part of pre-med because at one point, I wanted to be a doctor. I know how this works very well dude, and your numbers and figures are greatly skewed. Also where do you and Gobby come up with these low numbers for protein intake? I gave you examples on nutrition from Arnold and you just discredit the man because he has juiced? That's just telling me that you are reaching for an argument. If you want to argue based on fact and evidence, please do so...but if you want to say something like this: I know you are wrong because Gobby sounds convincing over the phone, please spare me. no offense dude. |
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Post by Nik Straub on Jun 14, 2011 18:37:00 GMT -5
Dear Bilal, if you were taking pre-med courses you may have stumbled upon the fact that over consumption of protein can lead to kidney stones and gout (which can cause swelling of the feet and inflammation of the joints, which was mentioned by Mr. Gobby). For armwrestling, there doesn't really have to be an overriding need to produce large, bulky muscles. There should be a focus on hand/wrist and tendons, firstly.
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Post by Stefan Straub on Jun 14, 2011 20:14:06 GMT -5
Dude, clearly you slept through your lectures.. let me break it down... High intake + protein = problems.
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Post by Bilal Kreidieh on Jun 14, 2011 22:31:52 GMT -5
Dear Bilal, if you were taking pre-med courses you may have stumbled upon the fact that over consumption of protein can lead to kidney stones and gout (which can cause swelling of the feet and inflammation of the joints, which was mentioned by Mr. Gobby). For armwrestling, there doesn't really have to be an overriding need to produce large, bulky muscles. There should be a focus on hand/wrist and tendons, firstly. I didn't argue with any of what you said He asked about nutrition, I talked about nutrition. 1-1.5 grams of protein per lb of body weight is not over consumption by any means...you sould be surprised by what your body can handle. Its like me saying I hit a pr on the bench and you saying, yes but if you lift heavy, you might hurt yourself....if you're careful, you won't...you'll just get stronger....see the analogy?  |
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Post by Bilal Kreidieh on Jun 14, 2011 22:32:56 GMT -5
Dude, clearly you slept through your lectures.. let me break it down... High intake + protein = problems. dude, im not arguing with what you are saying. we both agree that an overdose of protein = problems.... what you seem to be missing is that 1-1.5 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight is NOT an overdose. |
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Post by Rick Heidebrecht on Jun 14, 2011 22:39:38 GMT -5
Before I started armwrestling I was more into powerlifting and strongman stuff, and I was trying to put the weight on. I've got to admit, I tried going from 1 g/lb up to 1.5+ for a while and saw absolutely no difference. These days it's more like .8 or .9, and i think I'd be okay to go lower. This trend upward with protein intake is just part of the more-is-better approach that pervades body-building. The reason that competition-ready body-builders are a solid 40-50 lbs heavier now than 30 years ago is not because there has been major breakthroughs in nutrition or training (there hasn't), it's because they're taking 10x the amount of chemicals...
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Post by Leo Ayotte on Jun 15, 2011 0:26:44 GMT -5
Do you know the names and dosages of these chemicals that are 10x the amount used 30 years ago?
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