Post by Eric Roussin on Jul 11, 2011 14:44:04 GMT -5
How does everyone feel about the two different double elimination bracket systems that are commonly used? In Canada, most provinces use the double elimination bracket system originally developed by John Miazdzyk and described here:
www.novascotiaarmwrestling.com/Referee/Fullrules.htm#draw
This is the system used at Nationals as well as Worlds.
The two main advantages of this system, in my opinion, are 1) that the brackets can easily be done on any sheet of paper, whether there are 4 or 40 entries, and 2) that there is a process to avoid the same two pullers from facing each other on more than one occasion prior to getting down to the final four competitors.
The disadvantages of the system, in my opinion, are 1) that the system takes a bit of time to learn, 2) byes are given throughout the event (byes in later rounds tend to be more advantageous than byes given in earlier rounds), 3) there is increased possibility for errors, because the scorekeeper must keep track of which participants have received byes and which competitors have faced each other, and 4) in a large class, the two undefeated A side pullers get a long break, disadvantaging the pullers who are in the B bracket.
The standard double elimination bracket system that is used by the majority of sports around the world has several advantages. The printable forms used for the brackets actually indicate where the winners and losers names should go after each match, eliminating the stress of having to keep track of byes/previous matches. Because of this, it only takes about 30 seconds to learn how to use them. Also, all byes occur during the first round, levelling the playing field in later rounds. Matches move from the losers’ bracket to the winners’ bracket in a predetermined order, avoiding a long break for the two undefeated pullers.
The disadvantages of the standard double elimination bracket system are that they do not have a built in back-up plan to avoid two pullers facing each other twice before the final four. The matches are ordered in such a way as to minimize the chance of this type of occurrence, but it can still happen in some cases (particularly in large odd-number competitor classes). Also, different forms are used depending on the number of entries. (The same form could theoretically be used by someone who is very familiar with the system.)
A few examples can be found here:
7 puller bracket:
www.printyourbrackets.com/pdfbrackets/7teamDouble.pdf
13 puller bracket:
www.printyourbrackets.com/pdfbrackets/13teamdouble.pdf
I think most provinces use the system that is used at Canadians and Worlds, though not all do. Based on posted brackets from Alberta tournaments, it looks like Alberta is using the more standard double elimination bracket system. I know Al Aubin has run some tournaments using this system as well. In the US, the only event that uses the Canadian/Worlds system is the Unified Nationals – the tournament that qualifies American pullers to compete at the World Championships. Every other tournament that I know of uses standard double elimination brackets.
My question to everyone is: which system makes more sense to use? For ease of use, and decreased potential for error, I think I prefer the standard double elimination system. Also, because there is a lot of software that already exists to run standard double elimination brackets, tournament brackets could be handled electronically, and the final brackets could easily be posted online (as has been done for any Alberta tournaments in the past). Software has been developed to run the John Miazdzyk system and it is used at Nationals and Worlds, however I don’t know if this software can easily be made available to the different promoters.
What does everyone think? Would you be willing to live with the small possibility of having to face the same competitor twice before reaching the final four, if it means you could then enjoy the benefits described above?
I’m not necessarily suggesting that the system be changed at Nationals and Worlds, but I’m wondering about what people in Ontario think and want.
www.novascotiaarmwrestling.com/Referee/Fullrules.htm#draw
This is the system used at Nationals as well as Worlds.
The two main advantages of this system, in my opinion, are 1) that the brackets can easily be done on any sheet of paper, whether there are 4 or 40 entries, and 2) that there is a process to avoid the same two pullers from facing each other on more than one occasion prior to getting down to the final four competitors.
The disadvantages of the system, in my opinion, are 1) that the system takes a bit of time to learn, 2) byes are given throughout the event (byes in later rounds tend to be more advantageous than byes given in earlier rounds), 3) there is increased possibility for errors, because the scorekeeper must keep track of which participants have received byes and which competitors have faced each other, and 4) in a large class, the two undefeated A side pullers get a long break, disadvantaging the pullers who are in the B bracket.
The standard double elimination bracket system that is used by the majority of sports around the world has several advantages. The printable forms used for the brackets actually indicate where the winners and losers names should go after each match, eliminating the stress of having to keep track of byes/previous matches. Because of this, it only takes about 30 seconds to learn how to use them. Also, all byes occur during the first round, levelling the playing field in later rounds. Matches move from the losers’ bracket to the winners’ bracket in a predetermined order, avoiding a long break for the two undefeated pullers.
The disadvantages of the standard double elimination bracket system are that they do not have a built in back-up plan to avoid two pullers facing each other twice before the final four. The matches are ordered in such a way as to minimize the chance of this type of occurrence, but it can still happen in some cases (particularly in large odd-number competitor classes). Also, different forms are used depending on the number of entries. (The same form could theoretically be used by someone who is very familiar with the system.)
A few examples can be found here:
7 puller bracket:
www.printyourbrackets.com/pdfbrackets/7teamDouble.pdf
13 puller bracket:
www.printyourbrackets.com/pdfbrackets/13teamdouble.pdf
I think most provinces use the system that is used at Canadians and Worlds, though not all do. Based on posted brackets from Alberta tournaments, it looks like Alberta is using the more standard double elimination bracket system. I know Al Aubin has run some tournaments using this system as well. In the US, the only event that uses the Canadian/Worlds system is the Unified Nationals – the tournament that qualifies American pullers to compete at the World Championships. Every other tournament that I know of uses standard double elimination brackets.
My question to everyone is: which system makes more sense to use? For ease of use, and decreased potential for error, I think I prefer the standard double elimination system. Also, because there is a lot of software that already exists to run standard double elimination brackets, tournament brackets could be handled electronically, and the final brackets could easily be posted online (as has been done for any Alberta tournaments in the past). Software has been developed to run the John Miazdzyk system and it is used at Nationals and Worlds, however I don’t know if this software can easily be made available to the different promoters.
What does everyone think? Would you be willing to live with the small possibility of having to face the same competitor twice before reaching the final four, if it means you could then enjoy the benefits described above?
I’m not necessarily suggesting that the system be changed at Nationals and Worlds, but I’m wondering about what people in Ontario think and want.
