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Post by Eric Roussin on Sept 1, 2009 12:31:09 GMT -5
As most of you are aware, the majority of tournaments in Ontario do not have separate amateur (novice) and pro (open) classes. Do you think this is a good thing or a bad thing?
What do pullers who are relatively new to the sport think? Would you like to see amateur classes offered at events? If these were offered, there would likely be fewer. Perhaps 0-165, 166-198, and 199+ for the right, and 0-176, 177+ for the left. This could encourage more people to try out the sport.
If these classes were offered, who should be allowed to compete in them? People who have been in the sport less than a certain amount of time? People who have competed in less than a certain amount of time? Only unranked pullers? Or pullers who are not yet ranked in the top 10 or top 15 in the province? How long should pullers be able to pull amateur classes? Until they get a first place finish?
A lot of this has been debated in the past, and I don’t think there’s a magic formula that will please everyone. I’d just like to get a sense of the current mood of Ontario amrwrestlers relative to this topic.
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Post by toprollhook on Sept 1, 2009 14:58:58 GMT -5
GOOD POINTS ERIC. IF YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE PRO/AM TOURNEYS PLEASE HAVE 2 OR MORE TABLES GOING AT ONE TIME.. TORNEYS ARE TO LONG AS IT IS.
AS FOR WHO SHOULD PULL AM OR PRO. FIRST TIME PULLERS FOR SURE AND FOR THE AMOUNT OF TIME ONE SHOULD HAVE TO PULL AM'S 1-2-3 YEARS TOPS.. IF YOU WIN AN AM TOURNEY THEN IT'S TIME FOR U TO TAKE YOUR LUMPS WITH THE BIG BOYS. IF YOU PLACE IN AM TOURNEYS THEN IT'S UP TO YOURSELF. ALSO THE PROMOTER SHOULD HAVE A SAY .. NO DISREPECT BUT AT MIKE'S TOURNEY LAST YEAR THERE WAS A HANDFUL OF PULLERS(THAT HAVE BEEN PULLING AS LONG OR LONGER THAN MYSELF) THAT HAD NO BUSSINESS PULLING THE AM'S.. RIGHT OR LEFT HANDED YOU ALL KNOW WHO YOU ARE. MY FIRST TOURNEY WAS MARK Z'S IN NIAGRA FALLS. NICE WAY TO BREAK INTO THE SPORT.. I GUESS IT DEPENDS ON HOW SERIOUS YOU WANT TO COMPETE ALSO.. I PULL FOR FUN BUT IT'S MORE OF ALL THE PEOPLE I HAVE MET IN THE SPORT THAT KEEPS ME GOING. THERE SHOULD BE GUIDE LINES THOUGH.LETS SEE WHAT OTHERS THINK,CRAIG
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Post by Marc Vachon on Sept 1, 2009 16:13:35 GMT -5
I think it’s a good thing to have amateur and pro classes when cash is involved. If you were to have pro and amateur classes at each event, you would need two tables running. This would introduce amateur pullers to the sport, and possibly make it grow. However, I honestly do not believe this is how you’ll get the sport to grow. I think it’s safe to say that competing in a tournament is the end goal of an armwrestler. As a result, I believe recruiting people to PRACTICE the sport is the way to go. To do that, I think you need to bring arm wrestling to people, rather than trying to bring people to arm wrestling. Instead of tournaments in bars, you’ll need to have practices in malls, gyms etc. Public places where people are not intimidated, and when the ‘pro’ armwrestlers competitive juices are NOT boiling. In fact, I believe bring people to tournaments would intimidate people and push them away from armwrestling rather than them embracing it. This way, people will be introduced to the community of armwrestling. They’ll meet the people that make this sport great. In fact, people I see armwrestling as a way to get into shape, just like people work out for marathons, hockey, or any other competitive sport. To use arm wrestling this way, and to slowly introduce tournaments to these people will bring more people to the sport. Ontario, remember that you have the BEST ARMWRESTLER IN THE WORLD. This about that for a second… It’s like you guys have Usain Bolt to run with, or Sidney Crosby to play hockey with. It’s a marketing tool that has to be exploited (no offence Devon. I know you’re not a tool!).  Marc. |
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Post by Hugh Brodie on Sept 1, 2009 21:32:29 GMT -5
Since the school year is beginning, an interesting idea would be to bring a table (after getting appropriate permission) to some outdoor setting at "Frosh Week" (or whatver) on a university campus. McGill just had two days of this, and a (supervised) armwrestling table would have fit perfectly into the setting.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2009 14:38:57 GMT -5
for cash events, having an amateur class is understandable. other than that it usually is a joke. i ve been to many u.s. events (trophy events) where there was pro and am classes. there would be 4-5 guys in pro and 4-5 guys in am. this is logistically stupid. this is done i believe so beginners have a chance to possibly win a match, and stay in the sport. what seperates early pullers that quit to ones who stay is the ability to lose, yet train there weaknesses and move forward. this is the first fundamental rule of aw. its better novice pullers learn this early.
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Post by Jeff Oosterveld on Sept 2, 2009 17:29:07 GMT -5
i think Craig is on the right track it should be up to the promoter. he decides who can pull pro or armature. but it is also up to us new pullers to step up to the big guys to let them know whats out there coming after them.
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Post by G Ronald on Sept 2, 2009 19:48:03 GMT -5
for cash events, having an amateur class is understandable. other than that it usually is a joke. i ve been to many u.s. events (trophy events) where there was pro and am classes. there would be 4-5 guys in pro and 4-5 guys in am. this is logistically stupid. this is done i believe so beginners have a chance to possibly win a match, and stay in the sport. what seperates early pullers that quit to ones who stay is the ability to lose, yet train there weaknesses and move forward. this is the first fundamental rule of aw. its better novice pullers learn this early. Got to agree with chris look at me i lose alot but keep comin back one day i will be able to give those Big Rick H and Mark Z and the Gould brothers and so on a run for there money it may not be tomorrow but there will be a day mark my words !! |
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Post by Chris Macpherson on Sept 2, 2009 22:47:19 GMT -5
i think that there should be amature classes, but a 1, maybe 2 year limit on how long you can pull in them. if you are going to pull in said classes, you should be required to register with the OAA as an amature armwrestler, and there should be a ranking system for the amatures, so when you get to the top you are required to move into pro classes.
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Post by Jeff Penney on Sept 3, 2009 8:52:16 GMT -5
Good points; it shouldn't be left to the puller to decide am or pro. There will always be somewhat experienced pullers, 2 or three years, that believe they should be amateur, and grab the trophies; that's discouraging for people that are new. It has to be enforced/decided by the promoter. I don't believe there are too many new pullers, however, that quit when they get introduced to the sport by competing with experienced guys. Usually, it's a source of inspiration- and an accurate indication of where you stand. Am classes may be a good idea for first year pullers, arguably, but I believe we would be barking up the wrong tree if popularizing the sport is a goal. Marc Vachon hit on some key elements to bring the sport some credibility in the mainstream culture with regards to location. Also, to expand on another of his points: David Letterman once had some top armwrestlers on his show, for a demonstration. How about circulating a petition- to eventually send to Letterman- to have Devon Larratt appear on his show. A background on Devon- and his ousting of legendary John Brzenk (who was on the aforementioned Letterman episode). Devon- with his record, persona, and Superman looks- would be an igenious way to thrust armwrestling into the collective consciousness. Hell, lets forward the request to all late night programs. Oh yeah, and we'll have to ask Devon, too, I guess...
Jeff
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Post by Jeff Penney on Sept 3, 2009 8:56:09 GMT -5
Maybe set up a supermatch for the episode as well...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2009 13:51:28 GMT -5
Have given this some thought and here is my opinion, mine and mine alone.
1. It is my belief that there are really at least 4 levels in armwrestling.
Novice: Brand new 2-3 tournaments
Amature: 1-3 Years depending on frequency of activity and single or team variable.
Pro: Unlimited experience but for whatever reason never attained next level but still top 20
Elite: The best of the best.
Problems lie in the movement of one to the next. I believe that the availability of Amature allows someone to test the waters, have some success and have some fun. I'm sorry getting slammed twice is NOT fun!!! I realize that at one time thats all there was, but lets face it, things progress.
I do agree that it is up to the promoter to establish what they are allowing in their tournament, and what they establish as amature or pro.
It is my belief that if your right is pro, so is your left. Sorry. But they are attached to your body together. I really dont care if one is better than the other.
Here in Ontario we have many "Open" events which I believe could be considered Pro and have not shied away from these. I relish them. But it was also nice to attend a large event and through myself at people more my caliber for battle.
I have heard it said that "you learn more from your losses than your victories". I dunno about that. If I was crushed by Devon, then crushed by Joe Gould, I think all I learned was, not strong enough. But when I see newer guys like Tony, Gerald, Jeff Os, and Jacob, (not trying to leave anyone out), battling each other to get better away from the "Elite", it has its own intensity and excitement. For me anyways. They are just an example, you could put other names in there. To me this is where you learn. Losing a close one with some one.
Will you have it at an open tournament, yes you will, but we are talking about new pullers and it wont happen quite as often if they go two and out. Get what I mean. No, well then stop reading it gets better. LOL
As team captain of Buckhorn Arms I push my guys to go to the big tournaments as well as the small. We are going to Connecticut as well as attending the Harley, and the MGC. This give you a basis for the big stage and can give you a chance to pull some of the best. Nice when they have amature, but also nice to pull people you havent pulled before who are pro.
A mix is I guess what I am saying. To have amature all the time, then I believe it would get harder to pull "some" individuals out of it, but nice to give a chance to someone almost ready to make the move, to have victory on a larger stage. Ya know.
Recently Mr. Khouda put on an exciting event in Barrie and had the two amature classes. There were alot of competitors in it, unfortunately some snuck in who shouldn't have been there. But besides that it was great for them to battle, as a few jumped into the open, and didnt quite have it, but got some excitement in the am.
If you are asking Eric if it should be mandatory for Circuit tournaments then I would have to say no I dont agree, if you are asking should it be encouraged, then yes I do agree.
On another note I would like to see womens classes altered to allow them more involvement throughout a tournament. If there are only 3 women in a class, make it triple elimination and run a match after every male categorie. 154's (womens match or two), 176's (womens match or two), to allow them to not fall asleep and grow the womens categorie ie. (more involvement throughout the day. If they have 6 in a categorie run it normal or start with the womens. Just a thought.
I have rambled enough, so I will leave you now with your thoughts and as I said to start, this is just MY opinion. I am entitled to it, and I have been wrong so many times I have lost count. Hehe
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Post by G Ronald on Sept 3, 2009 20:41:08 GMT -5
(claps hands) very well put guy you really should write a book on armwrestling i know i would buy one maybe a bunch of copies to pass out to the newer up and comers like myself .
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Post by Jeff Oosterveld on Sept 4, 2009 9:25:20 GMT -5
this in my opinion is the best thread we have had on this whole web page Guy idont believe your wrong as often as you think thats just what women want you to think,
again i think it is up to the promoter to decide who pulls pro or armature, and some times your going to get some people sneak in.this way the sport will grow
this is just my opinion but i think the most important part about being pro is being able to take a loss and using it to inspire us to work harder for the next match. now i know I'm not pro and Ive only done this for two years but the pros that are out there are more than willing to help out the newbies and its not the wins in my mind that makes them pros but the willingness to make this sport gro. and if it wernt for people like Al Aubin Crazy George Joe Gould Guy Windover oh yeah even Mark Z then this sport would not be near as enticing to me
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