Cutting weight.

[John Milne]

On a side note I think weight cutting should only be done 2x a year max. Nationals and Worlds, Pro events etc.

In the long term IMO it's MUCH more beneficial to get heavier and stronger. Your progression will be easier, healthier, less restrictive and generally more fun. I'm not advocating getting fat but I am saying to let yourself grow and get stronger.

I'm willing to bet that the athlete who lets himself grow is much further developed that the one who constantly cuts weight over a period of say 5 years. If these two competitors met each other after this 5 year period and both met at the same weight I'm convinced that the one who has had the weight and strength on him for those years will dust the weight cutter easily.

I used to cut weight on a regular basis and now I don't. My goal is strength and staying fairly fit (within striking distance of my ideal weight). Since I've done so I firmly believe that I'm much further ahead for doing so.

Just my opinion of course.

[Deleted]

Good point John. I agree that cutting (app 7% of body weight) should not be done more than 2-3 times per year, or else consistent gains would be very difficult. However in ur comparison of the athlete (cutter vs grower) I agree, allowing to grow for 5 years would leave him the "stronger" of the 2. But not neccessarily the "more competetive puller". The sport is not about "overall strength" but "pound per pound" strength. One MUST realize (after 3-5 yrs of being in sport) in what weight class one will be the MOST competetive.... And walk around at 3-7% heavier all year around.
I personally am a stronger aw as a middleweight. But I am a better, more competetive puller as a lightweight... And it's all about $$, trophies, rankings and titles.

[John Milne]

I'm sorry, let me elaborate.

Lets take an example of a 198 puller. Lets assume they train with the same club. Their diet is similar, along with basically everything else (for sake of argument)

Puller A cuts weight regularly
Puller B does not and lets his weight get to around 205-209 and lets it sit on him for 5 years while continuing to armwrestle in whatever weight class he fits in.

They both cut weight to make 198 lb National Championships in 2016, all things being equal, both smart cutters etc. I'll postulate that Puller B is the stronger man and steps all over Puller A

[John Milne]

As we all know, consistent and steady gains are the key to this sport. Consistency and regular weight cutting are on the opposite ends of the spectrum. Regular weight cutting will be less effective in the long run. Wouldn't you agree on this point?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for staying/picking your proper weight class. We all can't be long armed and 6 ft 6. Everyone else has a weight class that they are most likely to be most effective in. I love being 215 but because of my height and arm length I'm more suited for 198/187. I will cut to 198 for important events if I have to, but it will only be very occasionally.

I know that the longer I keep weight on my body, the stronger I'll be. Continuing on the point - the stronger I am, the more stress I can put on my tendons and attachments, more effectively gaining strength. It's almost like a snowball gaining momentum. Follow me?

I honestly think it's a mistake to be cutting for anything other than Nationals or Professional events. The forward thinking athlete will look at this objectively and decide what they want... either a trophy room full of local prizes or National titles and cash.

I know I'm not preaching to you Chris. I know you follow this same principle, it's more for others to understand (if they choose to listen) and become the best they can be IMO only of course.

[Deleted]

It's very hard to argue against what u are saying. Solid points. And assuming all other variables remain the same... The 198'er remaining heavier and cutting less will, mist likely be slightly stronger (only slightly). The one advantage the more frequent cutter will have is more experience in pulling higher caliber 198's. And thus will be more battle tested going into his nationals or worlds. Now does this mean this will/can offset the 1-3% strength advantage the non frequent cutter has?? Very hard to say. John, I am absolutely picking at straws here for the sake of promoting deeper thought and create a very small counter argument.
On my team for example.. I'm trying to encourage all of my guys to cutt and drop a reasonable amount of weight for most events. I beleive unless ur a seasoned pro. You absolutely need to compete at high, intense levels 5-8 times per year to prepare for the anxiety and intensity of a nationals or worlds. And as long as these "mid-high level ams" are only cutting under 5% of there body weight(mostly water) I m not certain that this will impede their long term strength gains. However I'm unable to say that u are wrong... As this is a very delicate Balance that we are dealing with. And I'm also refering to the "ideal" and most efficient way to cut weight. And as u and I both know, very little pullers are cutting this proper way. And in this reality... Your argument is sound.

[John Milne]

I know that I'm very fortunate to train with my club. Allen Ford, Jeff Slater, Eric Roussin, Nicola Gazzetto, Ryan Sobhie (as of late) are very strong and solid armwrestlers. I'm lucky enough to be able to get regular training with them, I know it's not tournament armwrestling but it can be close. So in essence, I'm getting to pull with top level 198's/220's regularly. I know this is not the case for most though and I do understand what you're saying.

As always in this sport there is no single correct answer. In this case there can be two fairly opposite answers - both valid.

[John Milne]

Once again a bit of a side note.. the heavier aforementioned armwrestler will be used to feeling the increase in power from the 220/242 aw'ers he's been competing against for the 5 year period. That might actually be more beneficial than staying in the lower weight class.

[John Milne]

Apr 7, 2011 4:49:22 GMT -5 Mike Woolvett said:

Weight cutting is a necessary evil when you are dealing with any sport that has weight classes. Anyone who doesn't try and cut a few lbs to be at the top of one weight class as opposed to the bottom of another is a little crazy, imo.

Let's consider this scenario.

Both guys will compete at 176

You are 184 (lets say) and need to cut weight
I am 169 (but don't want to cut to 165.)

You diet, starve, deprive, train, run, use laxatives etc.
I sleep, rest, eat, eat, eat, eat, rest, sleep and mentally prepare

You walk in at 176 and have to compete in 2 hours. You are dehydrated, tired, stressed (wondering if the scale will be like the one you have in your bathroom) weaker than normal and will feel slightly bloated from trying to rush water and carbs into your body.

I walk in at 170-171 fully rested, stronger than ever because I've done nothing to limit my body and have rested for several days. I'm relaxed and ready to rock.

One question...

Who has the advantage?


I'm not trying to be argumentative here, just playing devil's advocate.

NOTE: This scenario will change dramatically if you have 24 hrs or more to recover. I think the heavier guy will then have the advantage.

[Jason Manjin]

Depends on which one pulls George first

[Jason Manjin]

I would much rather be the 169lb guy, for sure, BUT as Gobby was saying, if I were Shea I would be more competitive cutting the weight (like he does) and pulling 76 instead of Anatoly, Tamblyn, Ford , Slater, even if Shea is a little weaker at that weight.

[Deleted]

In that scenerio... Having to pull only a few hours after weigh in. The 170 ish puller has clear advantage. However, with 24-48 hours to recover after weigh in, 184 puller has clear advantage.
However there are so many variables at work here that u would almost have to go on a case by case basis... Ex. The pullers short term goals, long term goals, intelligence, discipline, life style, level of physical conditioning(for recovery purposes).
It's my nature John to try to poke small holes in your theory. However in all reality and everything being equal. Yes, the puller that let's the weight sit on him, and cuts less often will most likely beat his 198 counter part that cuts more often. Using yourself as a perfect example. I pulled you when u were 200-205. And again when u were 210-215. Heavier John has more endurance and tourque at the table.... Possibly by even 5-7%. Well argued.

[Mike Woolvett]

Thanks for all the awesome feedback guys.
i
I don't really disagree with anything that John says, but in my case I am walking around at about 179 or so and want to be able to make the 176 class. Perhaps cutting weight isn't the right term for me in this scenario, as the weight loss should be achievable through diet change in the week or so leading up to the event.

In the future who knows what will happen, and I may add some weight and end up in the 198 class. But for now, this will be my first time competing in a non-novice class, and I think I will be most competitive at 176.

[John Osiecki]

Maybe John or Chris can help me out also....i weigh pretty consistantly around 175.....I want to train to be the best I can be at this weight.....should I try to maintain this weight or allow myself to gain a few and cut before competition? Should i train with heavy weight low reps...or more reps less weight...i dont have much body fat as i am 6 feet tall.....any tips would be appreciated....thanks.

[Deleted]

U should allow urself to get up to a ceiling of 180 (cutting from there is easy and simple). Heavier weight/lower reps are better if ur not getting table time. Table time is essential, and is where ur gonna get ur biggest aw gains. Finding the Proper balance between the two is a big key to success.

[John Milne]

Apr 11, 2011 21:10:31 GMT -5 John Osiecki said:

Maybe John or Chris can help me out also....i weigh pretty consistantly around 175.....I want to train to be the best I can be at this weight.....should I try to maintain this weight or allow myself to gain a few and cut before competition? Should i train with heavy weight low reps...or more reps less weight...i dont have much body fat as i am 6 feet tall.....any tips would be appreciated....thanks.

More information is needed.
How old are you?
Do you maintain this weight without trying or are you in a constant state of diet?
Do you workout with weights regularly? If so, what have your gains been in the last 2 years (in terms of bodyweight)?
If you don't workout will you include weights as part of your program?

There are a lot of variables here. Basically, if you foresee being in a heavier weight class in the next 5 years, let it happen gradually without restriction and you will be better off (in the long run). If you will remain at a steady weight and don't foresee being in the next weight class then do what Chris says.

Each armwrestler is different. Goals, physical makeup, diet, genetics, availability of training partners.. there are too many to list really. Once again, there will likely be no ONE single correct answer.