Entry Fees

[Rob Hancock]

When did the entry fees at circuit tournaments go up to $30 per arm? I don't remember voting on this increase at the last AGM?

[Eric Roussin]

The standard entry fee for circuit sanctioned events was raised this fall from $25 to $30. This decision was made for a couple of reasons. Over the summer the Executive decided to set standard minimum referee fees to $150 for circuit sanctioned events and $200 for Provincials. A separate decision was made last year to charge circuit sanctioned promoters a flat fee of $100 in addition to the $5 per entry, and the host of Provincials $300. It is with this money that the OAA can afford to offer puller incentives, annual awards, referee clinics, etc. These decisions were made without increasing revenues for promoters, and they are the ones who shoulder the financial risk when running events. All of this, combined with the fact that many regular sanctioned events are now charging $20 or more for entry fees, has made it a bit difficult to find hosts for the circuit tournaments. It was a bit of a struggle to get to five for the season. However the relatively small price increase on an individual level should make a significant difference to promoters, and hopefully going forward it should be easier to set the schedule.

I apologize for not posting many of these details on the OAA site yet. My focus hadn't been on armwrestling as much as usual over the summer/early fall, and I've fallen behind on site updates.

[Rob Hancock]

Exactly which members of the executive are responsible for the decision to inrease entry fees at ciircuit tournaments? Was the decision to charge promoters $100 made by the executive or voted on at an AGM? Why are we charging our provincial tournament director $300 to run our provincial championship while we're donating $500 to events like the MGC for example? I think it's wrong and needs to be voted on at the next AGM.

[Eric Roussin]

None of these decisions were made at AGMs. Not all decisions need to be voted on at the AGM, and having decisions only made once a year isn't optimal. The Executive therefore makes decisions on certain issues in between AGMs.

The main thing we want to try to ensure is that promoters do not lose money. I can tell you from experience in running events of all levels - sanctioned, circuit sanctioned, Provincials, Nationals, and cash events, that is much more financial risk in putting on certain events than others.
Organizing a sanctioned event, circuit sanctioned, or Provincial Championship can be done fairly easily, without losing money, even without securing outside sponsorship. Yes, of course it depends on what type of awards you want to give out, the venue you select, etc., but the costs are pretty much within the promoter's control. There's generally a built in attendance base at circuit events, and especially Provincials, and we felt promoters could still be able to cover their costs and hopefully even make a bit of money even paying a flat sanctioning fee to the OAA.

National Championships and cash events carry a lot of financial risk to the promoters. Nationals cost $10,000+ just to pay for referees and scorekeeping staff and their accommodations. I believe Mike's event have averaged about $10,000 to put on (some cost more). Going in to these events, most promoters expect to lose some money, just hopefully not too much. Though these events don't appeal to everyone, they appeal to most, and are important to top-level competitors. We should do what we can to encourage these events to keep occurring in our province. I'm not sure everyone realizes how good we have it here in Ontario as compared to almost any other state or province when you consider how many events, and how many different types of events, are held during the year. It would be a shame if Mike stopped putting on the MGC, if no one bid to host Nationals (I expect this will soon happen -- in fact the 2014 Nationals location has yet to be determined due to lack of interest), etc. I really do not think Ontario would have been able to develop so many high calibre pullers over the years if these opportunities weren't around.

I can confirm that over the past couple of years, a number of different events benefitted from sponsorship from the OAA, including the Mike Gould Classic, Mark Zalepa's International Round Robin, the Toronto Pro SuperShow, and the Canadian Nationals, and OAA sponsorship is available to other events of these types.

If the fee structure stops working (i.e. attendance at circuit events drops significantly), it can be revised, but so far over the past few years it has been working well, and we're able to offer puller incentives that aren't available in any other province.

[Joel Goodsell]

I am always in favor of things that will make the oaa better but just my opinion, 30 dollars is a lot. The last entry fee increase was voted on by everyone at the provincials that mike put on and most people didn’t seem to have a problem with it, but this is getting to be a little expensive. If it was just 60 dollars that you would spend I am sure everyone would be fine but with gas on top of that and the fact that you can’t bring you own food in because we are trying to make the venue money as well makes it hard. This is the reason I didn’t go to Westerns and unfortunately it will probably be the reason I don’t go to Easterns. I know I am not the only one who feels like this. If it works and people keep showing up then all the power to you, like I said I am in favor of things that make the oaa better and make things easier for everyone. Again just my opinion

[Hugh Brodie]

I also feel that $30 is too much. I am willing to pay up to $50 for both arms, but no more than that. If you go to the Northeast board and check entry fees to upcoming events, most all of them are $20 or less (a few at $25, and maybe some cash events at $30) - often with discounts for multiple entries.

I am afraid that's why Team Metahook won't be well represented at Kingston - but at least 7 of us are planning to go to Belleville in December. (watch out for our new recruits: Andranik Mnatsakanyan (twice Armenian champion for 70kg (maybe 65)), Remy Deseve (17 years old, ~180 lbs), and Olivier Larouche-Richard (15 years old, 154 lbs)).

[Deleted]

I can't say if 30$ is too much to pay for an Ontario puller, considering all the advantages/prizes at the provincials. As someone not residing in Ontario, 30$ for a shot at cash or a nice trophy is justifiable to me. But 30$ for a standard medal is not.

[Joel Goodsell]

Another thing about this is how many new gus are we going to get by doing this. how many people are going to want to pay 60 bucks to go 0-4. I know when I started if i had have payed 60 bucks for some of tge beatin g I took I might have looked towards something else. I know people say you have to take your lumps but most of us did it when the price to compete wa 20 bucks or under. I think prof of this is already apparent. last jan we posted something about the lack pof interest and everyone said its fine. Well 4 people in a class is not fine. How many tourneys are tgere where every class has 7 or more people in every class, Not to many. I keep going to tourneys and hearing from people who had said theres nothing wrong last year complain about the amount of entries. If you want to rais the price for us then I guess thats that. I do however think that we need to implement a set fe for new blood. Because I'm afraid that if we dont, the four people we get per class is going to drop to 3 or 2 to non

[Joel Goodsell]

Its like gobby said thi if the prize meets the price then its not to bad. Joes tourneys are fun because your always working towards something but when I pay 60 dollars pull 2 or 3 people then get a 5 dollar trophy thst falls apart in a year then I feel kinda ripped off.

[Eric Roussin]

A lot of good points are being made. Let’s keep the discussion going.

I’d like to point a few things.

There are typically 15-20 OAA events held during the year, in addition to probably 10+ non-sanctioned events. Of the 15-20 OAA sanctioned events, the OAA sets the entry fees for only six of them – the five circuit events and the Provincial Championships. The entry fees for all other events are set by the promoters at their discretion, and many events feature lower entry fees.

The standard entry fee for circuit events was raised by $5 in 2010, primarily to raise additional funds for the OAA. The $5 increase went straight to the OAA. Interest was expressed to increase the amount of puller incentives. For the 2012-13 season, these are the incentives that the OAA is offering:

• One free entry to the Provincials for those who attend four circuit sanctioned tournaments
• Two free entries to the Provincials for those who attend all five circuit sanctioned tournaments
• $200 to the Male Puller of the Year
• $200 to the Female Puller of the Year
• $200 to the winner of the Ironman award – the person who attends the most OAA events, both sanctioned and circuit sanctioned, throughout the year
• $300 to the Team of the Year
• One free entry to the Canadian Championships for anyone who competes in 4 regional circuit tournaments as well as the Provincials
• Two free entries to the Canadian Championships for anyone who competes in all 5 regional circuit tournaments as well as the Provincials (both entries must be used by the same competitor)
• One free entry to the Canadian Championships for anyone who wins a class at the Provincial Championships (someone who wins two classes receives two free entries)
• The OAA will also reimburse the Worlds entry fees for any Ontario pullers going to Poland for the World Championships.
The majority of the funds at the OAA’s disposal come from membership renewals, and the $5 per entry at circuit tournaments.

The $5 increase for the 2012-13 was for the tournament promoters, primarily to help cover the increased officiating costs and the $100 flat circuit-sanctioning fee.

If enough people want to lower the standard circuit event entry fee in future seasons, something will need to be cut. Either the puller incentives would need to be drastically reduced, major event sponsorship would need to be reduced or eliminated (which could lower the likelihood of these events occurring in the future), or a combination of the two. I don’t really want to do any of this. We’d need to reduce annual spending by approximately $1,500 to $2,000.

I agree that a $30 entry fee may dissuade some first-timers who may be on the fence about whether or not they want to enter a tournament. But there are many other opportunities to compete where the entry fees are a bit lower, and the competition level may not be as high (i.e. fair events, novice-only events, etc.).

It’s a tough balancing act. We want entry fees to be high enough to minimize the risk to promoters and to generate some income for the OAA, however we don’t want the fees to be so high that many people choose to stay home. If anyone has any potential solutions, please share them.

[Hugh Brodie]

For those of us living outside of Ontario there should be a discount. We don't benefit from the "incentives". Also there should be a discounted entry fee (maybe $10 or $15) for first-timers.

[Deleted]

Nov 14, 2012 15:38:52 GMT -5 Hugh Brodie said:

For those of us living outside of Ontario there should be a discount. We don't benefit from the "incentives". Also there should be a discounted entry fee (maybe $10 or $15) for first-timers.

^
This

[COLLARM]

I think it should be $40 For those living outside of Ontario .
Becoues it would scew up the Ontario Rankings.

[Eric Roussin]

Nov 14, 2012 15:38:52 GMT -5 Hugh Brodie said:

For those of us living outside of Ontario there should be a discount. We don't benefit from the "incentives". Also there should be a discounted entry fee (maybe $10 or $15) for first-timers.

Good points, and interesting ideas. What do Ontario pullers think?

[Ryan Charles]

Personally I think it is too much money. I see the reasons for raising the entry fee's. However, since they have been raised I have heard many people say they cannot go because of the expense including myself. So if this as a result hurts turn-outs what good is it to have the prices raised? Just my thoughts. The incentives are nice but its the numbers we really need. JMO