Pulling styles - which is more effective

[Deleted]

Oshawa I think.

[Nik Straub]

Hey Chris, I thought Rustam was more of a hook puller?

I think this has been a topic on the northeast board, and from what I recall, Engin Terzi replied that more hook pullers have won WAF titles than toprollers. I could be wrong on this though.

Also, from what I see in videos, the hook is a very popular style in Europe.

Further, you don't necessarily need a strong bicep to have a wicked hook. I believe there's a top middleweight puller in Russia by the name of Zoloev (sp?) who is reported to have little weightlifting background, and small bicep, but apparently has a ridiculous hook.

[Deleted]

Nik, Rustam's first option is the high hook and he uses it to ease 90% of his opponents to the pin. When his opponent has a dominant hand/wrist the match falls into straps or the deep hook(where is the dominant). High hooker primarily, def hooker when neccasary. Virtually NO multiple waf champ is a one dimensional deep hooker. And it's never their first option (not practical vs hitters). A strong bicept in hooking is ESSENTIAL! K. Zoloev may not have a muscular bicept, but his BICEPT TENDON is thick and solid like steel cable. His training has always revolved around heavy isometric(static) holds which is a staple in aw(but not condusive to muscular tone). Their is a video on YouTube of rustam vs zoloev in a deep hook. Rustam, in the first 45 sec cannot pin zoloevs hook lock. Do u think that is due to zoloevs tricept or s pressure??? No it's his bicept/bicept tendon combination.... Absolutely essential if ur a deep, power hook puller.

[Deleted]

Yes, on a world/elite level an elite hooker more times than not will defeat an elite top roller. A great top roller requires certain variables to win... Hit timing, hitting balance and mechanics. He MUST take the hookers hand. A great hook puller is the stronger individual, and requires less favorable variables to win. (eg keep wrist and stop match). Another factor is getting straps some hookers can lose their wrist(bale) and still win in straps. 3 major factors in modern aw that favor hookers. Straps, refs grip(to get straps) and OFFSET PADS(protects lock, and easier to bring shoulder support. A top roller is looking to "steal" opponents power. Hooker is looking to "mearly contain, or even go into" opponents power. .... I tend to respect the hooking mentality more. However a day does not go by when I don't wish I had a longer forearm. Lol. (would make life a bit easier on table)

[Jason Manjin]

We should put together an "armwrestlers bible" and start by putting some of this info in there. That Gobby guy talks alot but d**n he is on- the- money! (even if he is from QC)

[Deleted]

I might be from Quebec but Im a huge fan of this board... And lately interesting topics have been very scarce. I'm lovin this one though .

[John Milne]

The force is strong in young Gobby

[Nik Straub]

This topic is great! You're dead on Chris. I am not sure if Zoloev does any type of static training either than armwrestling, at least according to Engin. Also Chris, having a shorter forearm isn't that bad, even desired for hook pullers. I have to watch some more videos of Rustam, I always remembered him as a hook puller.

Have you seen Rustam's arm workout on youtube chris?

[Nik Straub]

Short forearms are also desired for flop wristers, who like to get underneath the arm of a top roller i.e. Cadorette v. Bagent

[Bilal Kreidieh]

Sept 15, 2010 17:06:04 GMT -5 @chrisgobby said:

Yes, on a world/elite level an elite hooker more times than not will defeat an elite top roller. A great top roller requires certain variables to win... Hit timing, hitting balance and mechanics. He MUST take the hookers hand. A great hook puller is the stronger individual, and requires less favorable variables to win. (eg keep wrist and stop match). Another factor is getting straps some hookers can lose their wrist(bale) and still win in straps. 3 major factors in modern aw that favor hookers. Straps, refs grip(to get straps) and OFFSET PADS(protects lock, and easier to bring shoulder support. A top roller is looking to "steal" opponents power. Hooker is looking to "mearly contain, or even go into" opponents power. .... I tend to respect the hooking mentality more. However a day does not go by when I don't wish I had a longer forearm. Lol. (would make life a bit easier on table)

Great post. Thanks.

[Deleted]

Yes, I ve seen all his YouTube vids.
Okay... Great question. The long forearm has a definate advantage in establishing position(especially in a low hand and posting top roll). If the shorter armed hooker has a stronger hand/wrist and sets his hook. He now has the leverage advantage. 2 reasons... 1, due to his shorter arm he starts high on pad(towards center line of table) he now has 7 inches of pad to draw back(opening up the angle of longer armed opponent). 2, "pry- bar" principle, place a 100lb d bell in center of table. Idealy u would want a long upper arm(elbow to shoulder) and a VERY short forearm to hoist that weight. Can u imagine tryin to pry it up with reverse dimensions??? Not easy. Now in the set up, u want(to establish ur move) ideally a very long forearm and a relatively short upper arm In order to "lever back" and put stress on opponents hand/wrist. IN SUMMARY, it all comes down to hand/wrist. Chris Gobby(perfect pry bar) vs Guy Windover(perfect lever). If my wrist/hand can take the match inside? I have advantage. (but due to the physics that would be extremely hard). If Guy can establish a high hook, post or top roll? I'm all but done, and forced to chase. Advantage Mr Windover. The GREAT Mr Brzenk once told me... The ultimate, prototypical aw would have a short arm, thick, long strong hand(to initiate his hook) and fast twitch muscle fibers to SPARK it all up! However u will almost rarely see such a phenom. Short arm=short hand, long arm = long hand. Devon's school of though would contradict some of this. His beleif is that a long f arm is advantageus no matter. In starting at bk of pad he can drive elbow forward and dramaticlly "cutting down" his opponent..... However again, this is assuming HE CAN GET HAND CONTROL.

[Deleted]

Dead(flop) wrist press. Short arm, easy to slip underneath (not actually legal). Long arm great to flop wrist and tricept press opponents elbow off pad(long arm might only have to press 3-4 inches across?). Again could be called for intentinal elbow foul.
In training my team, I refuse to allow anyone to flop wrist and push!! However a lock wristed shoulder press is LETHAL!!! (Randall press). This has great merit. The flop wrist (Cadorette style) is ugly as sh$t and can cause brutal injuries.

[Bill Cameron]

i dont no what you guys are talking about but it prob why you are so good for me its hard and fast and if that dont work a tight hook will get the job done.

[Bilal Kreidieh]

This goes waaaaay over my head. I just train to be the strongest I can be and I'm learning the hook really well. If you're ridiculously strong and you got a strong hook, I think it will do the trick.

[Deleted]

Being very strong, and excellent in the hook will take u a long way. But just remember, if ur hand isn't equally dominant pro pullers will beat u all day long.